Vanagon Tire Upgrade

I wanted to upgrade the tires on my Westy, I had been running the stock 14"x5.5" rims for awhile, and to me, it was okay. But to be honest for a van running tires that small, and knowing VW hadn't upgraded us to at least a 15" rim, but yet kept making our vans heavier, to me was a little dumb.1960's technology is well okay if it were the 60's...peace man...whoa

Also the stocker tires were getting a little harder to find, and I had upgraded the shocks to HD Bilstein's. and when I did... it really showed how much a handicap those stock tires really were.

So I started looking and it was a headache to say the least on trying to figure how to do it on a budget. I looked at the GoWesty 16" tire package but it was killing me to go that route, although to be honest it's the biggest bang for the buck.

So in turn my thinking my time was free (and it's not) and my wallet isn't (it's empty) so I would try to do as much as I could myself.

So I looked on the Samba, and it was a little confusing:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=203519

The link above was a loooooong post on which rims would fit and what adapters or spacers you would need, if you wanted to go that route, what rim , what tire...etc The more I read the dumber I got...there was a lot of information. But I was leaning on using spacers, the off-road guys use them for rock crawling, (equals safe and bomber) and it would open my option of an assortment of Mercedes or Audi rims, and not go aftermarket. To me factory rims are better, if rated properly for the weight of a loaded van.

More Research

Also I wanted to knock some rpm's off my ride because it would help my 2.0 ABA motor with the automatic; at 70 mph it was running 4k on the tach...this was a poor man's way of getting an overdrive transmission. The 225 17" are right at the limit of the tire comparison charts I looked at. It's right at the limit dropping rpm's, but not losing torque to where I would have to re-gear. Here is a really cool re-gear chart-CLICK HERE Also by dropping it 400 rpm's it would get my cruising speed/rpm's back to where it was when the van was a stick-shift. So by using those websites I calculated I would drop my rpm's by 350-400 on the interstate at 70 mph...nice!...better mpg, (the speedometer would lie) and lower temps...here I come. I would drop my rpm's on the highway and not the mountain back roads, thanks to the VW transaxle gearing.

The speedometer would be off but I plan on using a GPS to calibrate the speedometer and I will pull the needle off and re-stick it where it needs to be. I'll figure my oil changes out by using a % and using a calculator. By the way most factory Vanagon speedometers are off 5% by engineering design. (to make you drive slower?)

And to make sure I got the right load- weight rated tire for my van while using a car tire I went here-CLICK HERE to figure out what load I needed. Also I went with the GoWesty thinking that a PROPER car tire would do the job and then some. To see the article CLICK HERE and by using common sense I would prevail.

Stock 14" Tires and Rims

LadyLuck Smiled:

By luck I stumbled upon a guy selling wheel spacers off his Vanagon on eBay...so the hard part was done...I wouldn't need to calculate my ET (wheel off-set). He even had a picture showing the rims, and he also emailed the information I needed to find the rims he used and with the Samba I figured out what tires I needed. So I set my bid price to a ridiculous bid price and won, and still got them cheap!

Here are the spacers:

Here is what his van looked like:

see the For Sale sign...another dead WBX engine ???...

Here are the wheels and tires and balanced (take-offs) with 5000 miles on them, Michelins no less with a total cost of $405 (shipping included) I lucked out and found a great deal on a wheel and tire pull off set....YESSSS! !!

Here is a shopping list:

Spacers:

Wheel spacers and lug bolts for a VW vanagon or bus with a 5x112 bolt pattern, 5/8 inch thick. (15MM) BTW they are from H&R Springs. I saved 1/2 the money by finding my eBay steal.

Tires and Wheels

2001 Mercedes CL500 17" Factory Wheels

MERCEDES CL500 5- SPLIT SPOKE 17 X 7.5"

Diameter:

17 inches x 7.5"

Number of Bolts:

Offset:

Structure:

One Piece

Bolt Pattern:

5 x122

Brand:

Michelin

Width:

225

Aspect Ratio:

Load Index:

Type:

All-Season Passenger

Car Type:

Passenger/Performance

Hollander Fitment #65230

Additional Hollander Fitment # 65308

VW Tire Emblem

I don't want a Mercedes emblem on my Westy so I will cover up the Mercedes Center cap with a eBay Wheel Emblem. The size was _____mm (will find out later)

Example of the Center Cap Sticker

Money Saved...maybe :)

GoWesty 16" wheel package: $1200, plus $250 shipping

eBay 17" homebrew package: $ 405, plus $101 for spacers, $20 for emblems,

Money saved: $924 ??? maybe...(your time is worth something)

Things I did before any tire upgrade I was going to go with: Stopping is nice...and not over-rated...

PBR semi-metallic front brake pads

DOT 4 brake fluid flush

Stainless Steel brake hoses

New front wheel bearings

4 new HD Bilstein shocks

I got all the above material from the Van Cafe.

Here at the rims at the ForwardAir Depot

Here is a shot of the my factory wheels with GoWesty 14" Mercedes style hubcaps

Here is a shot of the new wheel NOT installed but just sitting in front of the Westy. Poor man's photo shop....I wanted to see if I would like them or not.

Old rims and tires picture

Oh the white on the roof is roofing mastic, that protects the roof when loading the kayaks, the ply-wood is to keep the van from sinking into the asphalt driveway when sitting in storage.

**** LESSONS LEARNED****

The lug nuts need to be hand tightened up after 2-5 miles around the block, then go 10 miles and re-tighten the lugs again, then finally at fifty miles, this helps seat the spacers and wheel in and helps prevent over-tighten the rims. Also being aluminum spacers it's a good idea to spray the spacers down with a zinc based rust inhibitor spray can of some sort or a wax based spray.

I also now have nitrogen in the tires instead of air...more than impressed with running nitrogen, I will convert my daily driver Jetta over next...it works!

**** LESSONS LEARNED****

Driving impression:

The van rides smooooooth now...more like a modern car, and not a pot-hole beater upper. It tracks on the interstate now and is not all over the road, cross winds are no longer a problem, and semi's aren't a white knuckle experience. The Bilstein shocks are also a great improvement, but for the biggest back for the buck...it's the new wheel package that helped the most.

Looks?

I think the 17" rims give it a classy pimp look, without the bling...

Here are some questions that were asked when I posted this project on the Samba Board

Quote: Bill W

Has it changed the 3rd gear rpm curve?

no , not really I'm back down to where I was when I had a stick-shift in it, it's now an automatic I dropped 300-350 RPM on top end

Quote: from Loogy

What are you using for rear lug nuts? The reason that I ask about the lug nuts is that, as far as I know, those wheels originally came with 12mm lug bolts. If that is the case, the lug seat should have a 22mm radius. The factory Vanagon rear lug nuts have a 26mm radius making them incorrect for these wheels (if they indeed have a 22mm radius seat).

it maybe right, it maybe wrong... but I'm using the factory rear nuts, they're mated on the new studs nice and tight, I plan on getting some prettier ones later, and was thinking you could help!

( Note: Loggy sells custom lug nuts)

Quote:guggenheim

So you're the one that out-bid me on ebay, grrr....... Any clearance problems with the 17's? Which Bilsteins did you go with?

I went with the HD Bilsteins, no problems on clearance which I was worried about, but they fit in there nice, I haven't been down a logging road, but my driveway has a angle on the curb and nothing has hit, and tight turns haven't been a problem

Quote:westybesty

Did you have to drill out the wheels?

No I didn't the spacers lug nuts went right thru the stock holes

kayakwesty wrote:

First THANK YOU!

for making the ultimate wheel thread....so do you think you have some fancy , not chrome (shiny) lug nuts for the rear of my westy

From Loggy:
Thanks for the Kudos. If you can't already tell, I have a passion for wheels. Vanagons are about the toughest vehicle on the planet to properly fit wheels onto (besides a Renault LeCar). Anyway, I enjoy it.

As for your rear lug nuts, you may actually be okay with the stock Vanagon lug nuts. The lug nuts that I offer are made for Audi/VW and Mercedes wheels that require a 22mm radius ball seat (this is describing the shape of the ball). I did a little research on your wheels last night and as far as I can tell, the CL class Mercedes cars use a 14x1.5 wheel bolt. All of the 14x1.5 lug Mercedes wheels that I have run across use a 24-26mm radius ball seat lug.

If your lugs are making contact INSIDE the pocket of the seat in the wheel, you should be okay. Stock Vanagon ball seat lug nuts actually ride OUTSIDE of the pocket right on the edge of the lip when used with the 12x1.5 lug Mercedes wheels. Does this make sense?

You can always do the marker trick to see where the lug and wheel seat actually make contact.

Let me know what you find as I am always curious as to what fits what.

Quote:Hirman6

LOVE how your set up came together, been following your "Homebrew" thread. Where we differ is that your 15mm spacer, coupled with ET of 46mm, brings you almost perfectly in line at a total offset of 31mm.

.

Before I forget THANK YOU LOOGY for creating the ultimate wheel thread to give me the courage to tackle this head hurting project

THE SAMBA RULES!

Mark Cumnock